3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

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3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

Postby SPD_FRK » Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:12 pm

***BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING READ FIRST***
Unlike the 3.5L/6g74 swap where you can easily swap the engine in and run with it, the 3.8L/6g75 engine swap requires tuning. Why is tuning this engine swap so important? The 6g72/74 is a 9:1 or 9.5:1 compression ratio engine, but the 6g75 is a 10:1 compression ratio. With the increased compression ratio, ignition and fuel is very important to have set properly. The ignition timing in the Galant Ecu (intended to run the 6g72 engine) is not sufficient to control the differences needed to properly run the 6g75 engine. From side by side comparisons of the Galant 6g72 Ecu ROM file and the 6g75 ROM file there are a number of areas in the ignition maps that are different by 4-7* or more. Along with the ignition timing, the fuel maps referenced in the Galant Ecu are also insufficient to adequately fuel the larger engine displacement. The 6g75 actually runs rich from the factory, but with the increased combustion chamber (CC) size on the 6g75 heads, and higher compression ratio this engine will require more fuel than what the Galant Ecu will supply at most ranges of the RPM or Load sections.

**Performing this swap and driving without properly tuning this setup will result in potential engine failure. Do so at your own risk!


For more information on tuning for this engine swap;
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=690


Motor Mounts/Brackets
The stock 6g72/74 motor mounts (passenger side) are direct bolt ons, all other motor mounts are also direct bolt on.

The alternator bracket from the 6g75 is different from the 6g72/74 as far as how the alternator attaches to it. You can use the 6g75 alternator bracket, and the 6g75 alternator as direct bolt-ons. The 74 passenger side motor mount would be needed in order to run the 72/74 alternator. If you want to use the 72 alternator, engine mount, and bracket you will run into an issue with the top bracket not lining up correctly. You can drill the bracket in the needed location as the 72 bracket can still work. You will need a washer between the top bracket and alternator that will keep the belt aligned properly.
ImageImage



Fuel System
The 6g75 series engines (MIVEC and Non-MIVEC) use a returnless fuel rail system. The 8th Gen Galant fuel rail uses a return style system which means you have the fuel supply line feeding into one side of the fuel rails, and a fuel return line coming off the other rail. The other difference on the 6g75 fuel rail is there is no fuel pressure regulator attached to it like the 6g72/74 fuel rails. As I understand this difference it will require the use of an "external" fuel pressure regulator such as an Aeromotive or other brand Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator (AFPR).
Image

With regards to the returnless fuel rail, some have tried modifying the 6g75 rails to become a return style, though it is not as clean and there is a better route. The 6g75 fuel rails also have a different angle of how they mount to the lower intake manifold. The 6g72, and 6g74 fuel rails will not bolt up to the 6g75 lower intake manifold. You will need to use a 74 lower intake manifold to give a clean installation and full use of the return style fuel system on the Galant. This also allows you to upgrade to other fuel rails that fit the 3000 GT engine.
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Ignition System
The 6g75 series engines use a distributorless ignition system via a COP (Coil On Plug). In order to drive this ignition system you would need to obtain the newer ECU, or run a full standalone engine management system. Now a note on the use of the newer ECU in order to drive this ignition system is that everything is run off a "CAN" based program instead of the OBD like our 8th Gens. That means if you swap to the newer CAN based ECU, the instrument cluster and everything has to be swapped in.

You can retain the use of the 6g72/74 distributor and mount it onto the 6g75 engine in the same location (rear bank) as a direct bolt on.The next issue with mounting the distributor here is the 6g75 coolant crossover pipe will not mount up. You will need to obtain the coolant crossover pipe from the 6g74 in order to mount the distributor on the rear bank. The relector wheel on the 6g75 is different than the 3 blade type design on the 72/74 engines. You will need to swap in the 72/74 reluctor wheel in order to run the distributor.
ImageImageImage



Intake

Throttle Body
The 6g75 uses a DBW (Drive By Wire) throttle body which is completely different than the 6g72/74 cable driven throttle body. Now since we do not have a way to operate this throttle body (or a desire honestly), you can simply swap the 6g72/74 throttle body over to the 6g75 manifold.

Upper/Lower Intake Manifolds
The 6g75 lower intake manifold will not accept the fuel rails from the 6g72, or 6g74 (Refer back to "Fuel System" section for more details). The "best" approach/combination of parts here is going to be the 6g74 lower intake manifold.

The upper intake manifold on the 6g75 just from looking at it is very "free flowing" and the plenum area is not "squished" either. For N/A or FI applicatons the 6g75 upper intake manifold will work fine. If you have upgraded to a Diamante, XG350, or Eclipse GTS upper manifold, you can use all of these manifolds. This is confirmed from bolting on the stock 6g72 upper manifold to the 6g75's lower manifold;
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Exhaust Manifolds
The 6g75 exhaust manifolds cannot be used for the swap on the 8th Gen Galant due to how the rear manifold is designed (the 4th Gen Eclipse manifolds may be different but will have to verify). The rear manifold goes down and away from the engine, as in it will hit the 8th Gen's steering rack or firewall because of how it is made. You can swap over the 6g72/74 manifolds, or a set of the RPW headers as well. Now on the headers there will be some modification needed to fit correctly (IIRC it was something with the mid pipe, or due to the height of the 75 heads the header tubes need to be lengthed...not sure). The photo below will give you an idea of how the rear manifold runs away from the engine (6g75 is on the far right sitting on the tire)
Image


Good starting point to find used 6G75s: http://www.car-part.com
(Found mine for $500 w/140K miles, better deals are out there, but prices aren't that bad)

Models and production years the 6G75 is available;
2003–present Mitsubishi Montero
2004–present Mitsubishi Endeavor
2004–present Mitsubishi Galant
2006–present Mitsubishi Eclipse (MIVEC Engine)

FSM information on the MIVEC System;
http://mitsubishieclipseforum.com/IMG/M ... _MIVEC.pdf
Last edited by SPD_FRK on Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:10 pm, edited 21 times in total.
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Re: 3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

Postby beam514 » Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:00 am

SPD_FRK wrote:For the past few years the engine swap of choice has been the 3.5L 6G74 engine from the Mitsubishi Diamante. A few 8th Gen Galant owners have sucessfully performed this swap and experienced first hand the great results.


2, to be exact (As of Thanksgiving 2009 haha)

anyway how similar are the 6G75 in mount locations as compared to the 6G72 and 6G74 (being that the 74 is a direct drop in for the 6G72)?
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Re: 3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

Postby SPD_FRK » Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:05 am

The 6G75 is a direct drop in engine swap just as the 6G74. The only thing that is different is the accessory mounts for power steering and A/C which I need to figure out or find that information on yet. I don't have any plans on my specific build for the power steering or A/C, and as far as I can tell the alternator bracket from the 6G72 should swap over to the 6G75.


Just 2 huh...well I guess we need to start lighting a fire under people's butts now lol
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Re: 3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

Postby beam514 » Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:16 am

we really do need to. The swap was so simple, I don't know why no one else has taken the dive yet
I'm also surprised that more people haven't taken a chance at the 6G75 swap. I haven't really been keeping up-to-date on the discussion thread over on club3g, but I only remember one guy swapping over the MIVEC 6G75. From what you're saying, it sounds extremely simple.

Wasn't there an issue with the fuel rails on the 75 though? I don't think they have a return line
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Re: 3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

Postby SPD_FRK » Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:31 am

Yea, the information is out there and some of those people just won't devulge the info...irritates the crap out of me lol. I am extremely surprised too that others have not taken up the engine swap. It seems a lot of people are either unaware, or not well enough informed on the V6 capabilities. Most of the people are all over the 4cyl performance stuff because it has been around for so long.

There are currently 2 for sure, possibly a 3rd 6G75 MIVEC swap that has been done on the 3G Eclipse/Sebring platforms. The MIVEC just needs an extra controller/switch to active the oil pressure solenoid in the head to creat the additional lift on the cams. I chose the Non-MIVEC engine so that I can install a set of 72/4 RPW cams and have no desire to mess with the MIVEC stuff.

The fuel rail that is OEM on the 6G75 is a return-less rail, a few have modified them to be a return system but IMO it looks sloppy. There are places we can purchase fuel rail material in either -6 or -8 sizes, they would just need to be machined/drilled for the injector ports. The fuel rail is something I will likely buy the aluminum rail material for and have a machine shop match the injector port spacing to the OEM rail.
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Re: 3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

Postby galantofva » Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:46 am

I wouldn't mind doing such a swap myself but like stated above, finances.
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Re: 3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

Postby SPD_FRK » Fri Nov 27, 2009 1:01 pm

Purchasing one of the 6G75 engines can range anywhere from $700-$1800. Because the engine is pretty new, and not really as available/inexpensive as the 6G74, the prices will be about that high for a while. If you are looking to swap the engine into the car without serious engine work being done right away the increase of displacement would be well worth the time/money over the 6G74 swap. Since these engines are fairly new alot off them can be found with 1000-60K miles on them which is still great. Others that have excess of 100K miles will be cheaper, but it would be best to atleast do a basic rebuild (gaskets, bearings, rings, etc...) on one of those.

For my build I am looking for the least expensive engine that is in good working order, but it will be getting a full tear down. On top of the actual engine cost there is probably just over $2K in engine parts for me to purchase as well. We just need to play the lottery more lol, it's an expense there is no way around that....but then again anything performance has never been cheap either 8-)
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Re: 3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

Postby m-rod » Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:45 pm

Good news for the 6G75. Looks like Crower H-beam rods are available.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Brian-Cr ... ccessories
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Re: 3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

Postby SPD_FRK » Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:49 pm

Well, I found an engine locally...kind of, the IMport Parts lace here in Denver said they can get me an engine shipped in from MT for $1100... :shock:

I am still sifting through Car-part.com and have a couple options in the $500 range. Seems like most places are closed up for the holidays now, but just waiting to see if any of them will let me setup my own shipping since I can get a better rate with our carrier. As long as I can get a couple of the other things sold I should be seeing an engine delivered by the end of January (hopefully).
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Re: 3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

Postby beam514 » Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:51 pm

a 6G75 for $500?!?! that's super cheap
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Re: 3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

Postby SPD_FRK » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:49 pm

beam514 wrote:a 6G75 for $500?!?! that's super cheap

Keep in mind I am searching for Non-Mivec 75s, specifically looking at 2004 Galants right now. There are quite a few 75s up on Car-part.com still ranging from $500 and if you want to find one at a decent price there is a good selection of them around $500-$800 depending on miles. I had found one labeled as "Core, Good Top" and I called them about it. The engine had been smashed from the bottom, they weren't real helpful if the crank was damaged or just the pan, but they only had it listed for $350...good buy for those who want the heads ;)
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Re: 3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

Postby SPD_FRK » Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:48 pm

There should be a 6g75 being delivered here within the next week or two. Made the call today to the place to give them my CC# so they can pull the engine out of the car. Should have it out by Friday I hope, and then it will be picked up and shipped to me here next week.
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Re: 3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

Postby m-rod » Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:11 pm

Very nice! Can't wait to see the arrival.
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Re: 3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

Postby GSpeed » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:05 pm

Here's a link discussing the possibilities of installing the 3.8 6G75 from 4th Gen Eclipse into 3rd Gen Eclipse, which may be helpful:
http://www.club3g.com/forum/3g-eclipse- ... ssion.html

Appears that the 3.8's "drive by wire" system may pose a problem, as well as diferent transmission, ECU (if MIVEC engine is used). The 6G75's upper intake may have the same bolt pattern as the 6G72 and 6G74, which might be used.
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Re: 3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

Postby SPD_FRK » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:49 pm

GSpeed wrote:Here's a link discussing the possibilities of installing the 3.8 6G75 from 4th Gen Eclipse into 3rd Gen Eclipse, which may be helpful:
http://www.club3g.com/forum/3g-eclipse- ... ssion.html

Appears that the 3.8's "drive by wire" system may pose a problem, as well as diferent transmission, ECU (if MIVEC engine is used). The 6G75's upper intake may have the same bolt pattern as the 6G72 and 6G74, which might be used.

CLub3g is far ahead of the Galant community on this, as well as numerous other aspects of the car. Running the 6g75 MIVEC is pretty straight foward like the 6g75 non-Mivec swap, the only factor still being looked into and "tested" is the controlling of the MIVEC itself.

With the current market not offering any performance cams for the MIVEC heads, the best choice currently is the non-mivec engine since we can run the RPW 6g72, or 6g74 cams in the non-mivec heads and still acheive more lift and flow over the MIVEC heads.

The DBW (Drive by wire) system can be used, but many are eliminating those all together in favor of a more "trusty" throttle cable. As far as I know those who have swapped the 6g75 into their Eclipse have swapped on the 6g74, or 6G72 throttle body and then just needed to make a bracket to support the cable from the throttle body. The 6g72, and 6g74 intake manifold will not swap over to this engine platform due to the size of the heads. The lower intake will not match up, nor will any of the upper intake manifolds.
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Re: 3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

Postby SPD_FRK » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:03 pm

I forgot to mention the transmissions from the 8th Gen Galant will bolt right up to the 6g75 engine, same as the 3rd Gen Eclipse 5 spd transmission also. If you want the 6 spd you can go for it, but they are not favored as much due to adding the 6th gear into the same transmission which can cause some weak points in the transmission (check out the Evo 6spd folks swapping back to a 5spd).

The ECU from the 4th Gen Eclipse is not necessary in order to run the 6g75 in our cars. Using a simple piggy back system like Emanage, or using EcuFlash on the 01-03 Galant ECUs will be able to tune for the engine just fine.
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Re: 3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

Postby GSpeed » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:24 pm

SPD_FRK, thanks for the follow up and clarifying that the 3.8 intake manifold cannot be used. since on the subject of swapping intake manifolds, I posted the following topic and thought you may have some input:
viewtopic.php?f=77&t=787 (didn't want to post here and get off track)
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Re: 3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

Postby GSpeed » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:54 pm

Link to 3.8 MIVEC (Mitsubishi Innovative Valve Timing Electronic Control System) PDF: http://mitsubishieclipseforum.com/IMG/M ... _MIVEC.pdf

Link to 2006 Eclipse Service Manual Data PDF with 3.8L engine info: http://tearstone.com/eclipsefsm/ps2406intro.pdf

Link to Mitsubishi Computerized Automatic Parts Search System version 3.41 tutorial: http://www.stealth316.com/2-wincaps.htm
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Re: 3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

Postby SPD_FRK » Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:28 pm

First post has been updated with current information I have so far on this. As I dig into the engine more, and make it's initial install into the Galant for mock up I will update more as far as motor mounts and anything else I find vital for others looking into this swap.
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Re: 3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

Postby SPD_FRK » Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:46 pm

Thread and information has been updated with new developments on the upper intake manifolds, motor mounts, and distritbutor fitment
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Re: 3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

Postby boostzealot » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:29 pm

woot woot, i leave in an hour to go look at a 75 i might be picking up.
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Re: 3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

Postby showtime » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:09 pm

There is an 6G75 motor in AZ for 500 bucks with 10K miles...thinking about getting it and possibly doing this project even though my motor runs fine. Any information yet on exhaust manifolds fitting, and what tranny would be best to use? (hopefully no auto) And also to get rid of the drive by wire we just use our OEM 6G72/74 throttle body?
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Re: 3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

Postby beam514 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:43 pm

boostzealot wrote:woot woot, i leave in an hour to go look at a 75 i might be picking up.


oh man, the entire thing?! :twisted:
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Re: 3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

Postby SPD_FRK » Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:48 pm

Motor is into the 8th Gen as of today. Uploading about 20 photos so far.

Exhaust manifolds form the 75 cannot be used because of how they setup the rear exhaust manifold. The rear manifold runs back and away from the engine and essentially will hit our steering rack or the firewall. From what I know the 72/74 manifolds (and RPW headers) will fit, the RPWs will need some modification at the mid pipe I guess.

Auto Transmission is a big "no" IMO, it may hold up as proven from RIPP on their 4th Gen boosted Eclipse making 400WHP, that transmission isn't much different than ours...but to avoid a repeating repair cost I would advise against an auto transmission mated up to this thing.


Be sure to read the first post in the thread as I have a lot of information being added to that, and will have more added shortly
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Re: 3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

Postby SPD_FRK » Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:50 pm

Updated original post with alternator bracket and exhaust manifold information and pictures
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Re: 3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

Postby SPD_FRK » Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:51 pm

boostzealot wrote:woot woot, i leave in an hour to go look at a 75 i might be picking up.

Keeping my fingers crossed on that engine bro, really anxious to hear what it checks out like.
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Re: 3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

Postby boostzealot » Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:41 pm

matt, i secured the motor so its mine now. im going to go pick it up when i get ready to leave tx. unfortunately i wont be coming through Denver on my way out. but im quite certain the first road trip im taking is to come see my Denver brothers!!! but yeah the motor only has 5k on the odo! the only thing i saw that i didnt like was the fact that it was sitting on the ground in the engine bay of the car. the passenger side motor mount was broken but thats because of the accident and luckily the tranny is gone. i know i wont need the harness so all ill be picking up is the motor as a whole. i cant wait!!! im super excited because the top end of the motor looks great!!! and with only 5k on the motor i can get it freshened up rather easily and sell the short block to someone who may need it more than i do. i mean the only thing the 75 block has over my 74 now is.....well....1mm of bore. pshhh. lol im way stoked!!!
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Re: 3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

Postby boostzealot » Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:47 pm

now here's my delima, if you want to call it that. i have to figure out which timing belt i need to use for correct timing. if i use the 75 belt, it may be too long. remember my heads and my deck have been shaved a tad. and if i use the 74's it may pose problems like last time and give me grief because of its dimensions. if i throw the 75 heads on i have to account for regaining the distance, therefore 75 territory. i know the 74 and 75 have the same deck height but i just may need to play around with them a bit. discuss. remember this is just for discussion. i have what i want to do but i want to see if everyone is on the same page when it comes to general knowledge on this motor and platform.
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Re: 3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

Postby mysticj » Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:22 pm

As far as I know, 74 t-belt = 75 t-belt. Heads are the same height. Am I missing something, BJ?
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Re: 3.8L 6G75 Swap Discussion

Postby boostzealot » Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:39 pm

ding ding ding. no you are correct. with the deck height being the same and the heads made from virtually the same castings, the t-belts would have to be the same length. i cant wait to pull the heads off my 75 to inspect them and get some hard measurements down again.

matt, i cant see the 74 waterneck not fitting just from the same fact as listed above. you have one right? oh and could you measure the bore on the tb opening on the 75 intake? thanks.
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